Buttercup
Junior Scholar
Ain't life grand?
Posts: 316
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Post by Buttercup on Jan 22, 2006 9:11:02 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that the Dinotopian society utilized tattoos? I loved Vorchia's drawing for the 2006 calendar and it reninded me of something I would like for a tattoo and it raised the question....Are tattoos Dinotopian? I would love to start a section of art on tattoos but figured I better ask first.
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Post by Vorchia on Jan 22, 2006 10:52:18 GMT -5
I have no idea. I know some characters in Az's Dinotopia stories have tattoos but I can't remember anything from the books about tattoos.
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Post by stinktooth on Jan 22, 2006 22:32:59 GMT -5
IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF INK TO TATTOO A GIGANTOSAURUS, BUT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WORTH SEEING.
WOULD A DINOTOPIAN TATTOO BE TRIBLE LOOKING I WONDER. PERSONALLY I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING IN ANY THE BOOKS BUT IF ANYONE FINDS ANY COULD YOU POST IT?
THANKS,
BDSP,
"VERITAS"
STINKTOOTH
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Rosa
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Post by Rosa on Jan 23, 2006 10:25:15 GMT -5
I never really thought before about tattoos on Dinotopia and have no idea if they would do it, but I'm sure there's been dolphinbacks who had them. Personally, I don't care for tattoos and would never mess with them..................Actually, now that I think of it, I'll bet some people do have tattoos on Dinotopia because of the influence of dolphinbacks.
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Buttercup
Junior Scholar
Ain't life grand?
Posts: 316
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Post by Buttercup on Jan 23, 2006 12:08:24 GMT -5
I sat and thought about this a little more and wondered. Rosa brought up the good point that some dolphinbacks had to have tattoos and so would have introduced them in that way. My question is that since Dinotopia is an Utopian society, would tattoos be frowned upon or banned as self mutilation in a society that abhors violence of any kind? Scientifically speaking, the tattoos themselves would be entirely possible because all that is required is ink and needles really. Modern hygiene is nice too, of course! Rosa is against tattoos, i have one so I am for them as a method of self expression...what would Dinotopians say on the subject and what say you all? If Stinktooth had a point, can you imagine the market that would be involved as far as the sheer amount of inks that would be required for Dinosaur tattoos? I can't even begin to imagine it!
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Buttercup
Junior Scholar
Ain't life grand?
Posts: 316
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Post by Buttercup on Jan 23, 2006 17:33:44 GMT -5
Dwaggie, thanks for the biblical reference, I thought I had heard that somewhere that the bible spoke directly against it and now you have given the proof. Question, what does the phrase "for the dead" mean? Is it referring to the fact that tattoos may be used to remember loved ones like I have seen on a lot of people, or does it have a different meaning?
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Post by Azonthus on Jan 23, 2006 23:38:04 GMT -5
If you read the verse again, you will see that it was not referring to the tattoos as a rememberance to the dead, but rather to the cutting. It was common with several pagan religions to have blood lettings or such to worship their gods or to help remember the dead. I know I'm just asking to have someone here (probably Aric or thereisnosaurus) jump down my throat by posting this link... Well, stay clear of the teeth on the way down guys;) This link, while a little flamatory in some parts and I DO NOT AGREE WITH ALL OF IT, gives a good explination of the verse from a fundamentalists point of view. 206.135.15.32/answers/atattoos.htmlPersonally, I do not like tattoos. Why? First off, for biblical reasons. Secondly, when people get them, they're not thinking about how their bodies will change as they age or as different things happen. I knew a girl in high school who thought the little sun she had tattooed around her belly button was so cute... Until three months later when she got pregnant and the 'cute little sun' went supernova. Also, it's just sad to see tattoos all stretched out of shape and saggy on old, wrinkled skin. Sorry, but they're not pretty (in my mind) and they're very painful to remove. As for the 'self expression' thing, (no offense to you here Buttercup!) I don't see how it's a unique form of self expression when so many people have them! When I see people dressed up all goth or punk or fitting some other stereotype, I think how sad it is that they think they're so unique and yet get lumped into a crowd because of their 'self expression' being the exact same as everyone elses! Ooh, third reason for not getting one... It makes choosing clothing for special occasions difficult. Do you show the tattoo or not? It looks really funny to have it only half covered! Then you have to find a dress/outfit that either displays or doesn't display it and the one you like best in the store will inevitably show it when you want to hide it. When I'm at a 'classy' place like the ballet or an art museum, I hate to see people there dressed in t-shirts and blue jeans. Call me old fashioned;) And, yet another reason, if the tattoo is in a very difficult to hide place (say, your hand or neck) you are limited in what jobs you will be hired for. It's a simple fact that people without tattoos/body piercings get hired more easily and get paid more in the corporate world. Ok, I'll go get off my soap box now and look for Dinotopian references to tattooing! One thing that does pop to mind fairly quickly is the prenocephale in HOD that had his domed head carved and jewels inlaid. Wouldn't that be a form of tattooing or cutting?
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Post by stinktooth on Jan 24, 2006 2:02:25 GMT -5
BUT BEFORE I LAUNCH INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHY I AM NEUTRAL ON THE TOPIC TATTOOS. I FEEL THE NEED TO MENTION THAT ALONG WITH WHAT AZZY SAID ABOUT RITUAL SELF MUTILATION IN PAGAN CULTURES SURROUNDING CEREMONIES MORNING DEATH, (IV'E ALWAYS WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT) YOU MUST REMEMBER THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE. IF NOT YOU MIGHT BE LED ASTRAY AS IS OFTEN THE CASE WHEN SOMEONE USES JUST ONE OR TWO LINES OF THE BIBLE IN SPEAKING ABOUT AN ISSUE.
WHEN LOOKING AT LEVITICUS YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT THIS IS THE SAME BOOK CONTAINING THE PUNISHMENTS AND SUB PUNISHMENTS FOR IF YOUR BULL GORES YOUR NEIGHBOR. THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS IS IN FACT AN ANCIENT RULE GIVEN BY GOD TO THE WHAT WAS AN ARMED AND NOMADIC CAMP WANDERING IN THE DESERT FOR A GOOD 40+ YEARS. (PLEASE BARE IN MIND I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE BIBLE CONDONES TATTOOS ANYWHERE) BUT, IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN IT IS KEY TO REMEMBER THAT JESUS IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW SO SOME THINGS DO NOT APPLY.
WHILE I AM NOT ABOUT TO GO OUT AND GET A TATTOO, I, ALONG WITH MOST OF US KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE. TATTOOS DO NOT HAVE TO BE VISIBLE TO THE ENTIRE WORLD, NOR DO THEY ALL CONSIST OF NAKED WOMEN AND THE DEVIL. MANY CAN BE QUITE INTRICATE AND BEAUTIFUL, HAVE SPECIAL MEANING (I HAD A MATH TEACHER WHO INSTEAD OF A WEDDING RING HAD A TATTOO BECAUSE HE WAS A WHITE WATER RAFTING GUIDE PART TIME), BE ON QUITE RESPECTABLE PEOPLE, AND OR BE FOR VERY PIOUS REASONS.
HOWEVER TATTOOS CAN WARP OVER TIME (YOUR EAGLE TURNS INTO A BUZZARD), IF DONE WRONG COULD GET YOU QUITE SICK OR KILL YOU, AND TO BE FRANK JUST WOULDN'T LOOK VERY GOOD ON A LOT OF PEOPLE (INCLUDING ME).
THE ONLY REASON I COULD SEE MYSELF GETTING A TATTOO WOULD BE IF I SERVED IN A UNIT IN COMBAT TO WHICH I FELT CONNECTED VERY STRONGLY, AND DESIRED TO BRING WITH ME.
BUT STILL, I DUNNO IF TATTOOS WOULD BE INTEGRATED INTO DINOTOPIAN CULTURE VIA DOLPHINBACK IT SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE TABOO OR AT LEAST UNCOMMON. YOU CERTAINLY DON'T SEE MUCH EVIDENCE OF THEM IN ANY OF THE BOOKS. BUT I'LL KEEP LOOKING.
BDSP,
"VERITAS"
STINKTOOTH
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Post by Vorchia on Jan 24, 2006 4:06:37 GMT -5
Hey Buttercup, I never looked it at that way! But yes, my drawing it does look like it could be a tattoo design. In fact as you might have noticed the pterothingy looks like the skybax logo. Bronty, one of the oldies who hasn’t been seen around these parts for a while, has the skybax logo tattood on her upper arm. Speaking of tattoo-like art, I was in the fantasy store looking at some postcards. I HAVE been trying to draw a Celtic knot tree and yes, there it was more, more beautiful, more complex and far greater then anything my poor little mind could have come up with. It was so beautiful... I have a thing for Celtic knots ok? Tattoos can have different meanings depending on a person’s cultural background. For some people it has religious meaning, for some its just drunken macho behaviour that is regretted afterwards, or anything inbetween. I suppose the common census is as varied on Dinotopia as it is on this board unless anyone would actyally want to write mr Gurney and ask? The cultural influences on the Island are diverse and range from all over the world and deep into history. Dinotopia is not a Christian nation. Maybe there are some Christian communities but I don’t think they form the mayority. So the bible discussion isn’t really in order here, interesting as it might be theologically. Oh, I just get a funny image of Az and Barry starting a bible discussion club in one of the major cities, rotfl. Sorry guys but its a funny image. Someone ought to draw that. (You know I like you and am in no way trying to insult you) Of course bible discussions could easily occur on Dinotopia as its an open minded society with lots of philosophers and even more daydreamers. They probably have something like a seperation of personal beliefs/religion and state or it’d get out of hand. (As much as I respect the different religions on this board and in therest of the world, different religions in a government would inevitably clash at some point and ruin our poor little utopia.) I also can’t visualise Dinotopian religion being unified under one banner like like an Oghtar based religion. A monotheism wouldn’t work because it’d infringe upon the freedom of belief which they should have. Maybe they have a religion that mixes and combines all others, like an ancient Greek monotheism. Anyhow, I can’t see how they would seriously have something against tattoos or piercings as long as its within common sense and within reason. (Aka, doesn’t pose a health hazard) I wouldn’t do tattoos myself. I am a major whimp and I will avoid needles being stabbed in my arm. (And yes at school I ahev a lot of classmates who did clinical chemistry and like to tell me all the ins and outs of ‘how to take a blood sample painlessly’ in order to talk me out of my fear of needles. Lol). Futhermore I agree with Az, the body is a biological system, it changes constantly! Heck I know one guy who has a lion-head on his upper arm and he grew fatter so now he has a really ugly flabby fat lion on his arm. It gets worse, when he wears a normal short sleeved shirt you only see the lower bit of ‘hair’ of the lion’s head and it looks like it might be something completely different thats hidden under that sleeve... One has to take that into account too, if the tattoo is half covered, what DOES it look like to people who don’t know??? As for a job, thats true, I am studying molecular biology and students have to take off ALL jewelry in the laboratory. This poses a problem for those with a lot of facial piercings but its necessary in terms of microbiological hygiene. I don’t think tattoos pose much of a problem at the lab... Try the electrophoresis gel dye without gloves and you’ll have a nice blue ‘tattoo’ for a week. But thats another story entirely. I might do some henna tattoo thing, I never did but I think I might. I don’t waste a lot of money on my vanity though so I’d probably think something along the lines of. ‘Hmmm... Do I want a henna tattoo or do I want to take the money to the second hand bookstore?’ And you know me, don’t you? I don’t even do make-up. I get to handle enough chemicals without smearing them onto my face. Maybe if Az would like so, I would put on some purple eyeshade for her wedding but thats about it. Mom’s given up on the Christmas and birthday “aren’t you forgetting something” comments so I don’t have to do make-up at those occasions anymore either. Yay for the make-up free existence! Mwahaha. Since when is an art musuem classy? I’m not into the whole class thing. Classes are something in school and something in the train. I’m me, I sit in second class in the train and I take molecular biology and Spanish classes. I wear whatever the weather demands and doesn’t make me look fat.
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Barry
Scholar
You Steal me Mountain Dew, I kill you!
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Post by Barry on Jan 24, 2006 5:04:46 GMT -5
So Aric, thereisnosaurus or Stouthorn would not jump on my case for posting the verse and my option about tattoos, I'm going to remove it off there. I was kinda thinking that I should have just PM buttercup only and this wouldn't have been a problem. I don't know what I was thinking when I put it up. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
BTW, Thankx Azonthus for finding that info. I was going to go to my next Bible Study meeting and discuss this in church and get more info on it. I still might too.
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Post by Azonthus on Jan 24, 2006 10:45:38 GMT -5
So Aric, thereisnosaurus or Stouthorn would not jump on my case for posting the verse and my option about tattoos, I'm going to remove it off there. I was kinda thinking that I should have just PM buttercup only and this wouldn't have been a problem. I don't know what I was thinking when I put it up. I'm sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.
Hey, Dwaggie, there has been no problems with this conversation. No name slinging or dragging anyone through the mud. We've all just been stating our opinons on the matter like adults. In all honesty, I am quite impressed and proud of how everyone is handling the religion being brought into the matter Good job guys! ;D
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Barry
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You Steal me Mountain Dew, I kill you!
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Post by Barry on Jan 24, 2006 13:31:02 GMT -5
Thankx Azonthus, I thought that I might get out of hand. I was worried that I be the one who would start it. Anywho, Thankx everyone for keeping a cool head. ;D *dose the happy dance*
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Buttercup
Junior Scholar
Ain't life grand?
Posts: 316
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Post by Buttercup on Jan 25, 2006 8:47:33 GMT -5
Well, I must admit, I wasn't quite expecting the turnout on this subject that it has received. Don't get e wrong, I love the fact that people took me seriously and actually were able to speak on the subject from all different points of view. Some things I agree with wholeheartedly right now, and many things that have been said made me stop and think. I like that even when I might take objection if I weren't better informed. Since I am, and i know no one here means any harm, it makes me feel safe in saying taht although I will not have my tattoo removed, (no matter how flightless my phoenix may end up looking in old age) I will most likely never get another one. I wasn't expecting to open up a religious discussion but it turned out very well indeed. And hey, I learned a lot that I never knew before. Personally, I love to hear what people think on just about any subject just because I love to hear so many different opinions expressed all at once and that way people get the chance to learn from them. I think it would probably be safe to say now taht we will not have a group of Dinotopia tattoos, but at least we have a nice basis for explaining why, if any one ever asks. ;D Thanks again Everyone!
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Barry
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You Steal me Mountain Dew, I kill you!
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Post by Barry on Jan 25, 2006 13:53:18 GMT -5
No harm done. As Azonthus said, "We've all just been stating our opinons on the matter like adults. In all honesty," And she is right. We have.
cya,
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Post by Croco and Speedwing on Mar 13, 2006 21:35:38 GMT -5
I never really thought before about tattoos on Dinotopia and have no idea if they would do it, but I'm sure there's been dolphinbacks who had them. Personally, I don't care for tattoos and would never mess with them..................Actually, now that I think of it, I'll bet some people do have tattoos on Dinotopia because of the influence of dolphinbacks. Actually, the modern day interpretation of my main Dinotopian avatar (Croco Hallaway) has various tattoos on his body, one of which is the emblem on the uniform of a Master Skybax Rider. And yes, he is a Dolphinback, so I do believe that Dolphinbacks may, and can have some influence on this. As for the views of native Dinotopians themselves...if it were truly a utopian society as we believe it is, then I'm sure that they would leave the option of getting a tattoo up to the individuals themselves. I'm sure it would be like it is in the Outside World...where mostly young men and women would be the ones getting their ink done, but I'm sure that most, if not all Dinotopians would use their better judgement in their decision. But tattoos can be intricate works of art that can (and should, according to some) be admired. I think it was sometime a couple weekends ago I heard a radio station that I like to listen to broadcasting from a tattoo convention, and I know people go there to display their works or those they've had done on them. As for the spirituality aspect...I know a fella who is a Native American that has done himself up to look like a tiger to match his totem. I should've had my picture taken with him to show you guys, but I will the next time I see him. I know that some religions frown on most, if not all forms of body modification, yet in the same breath, some of the most beautiful tattoos I've ever seen have some kind of spiritual connection to them.
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