Using the Lords name?

[cassandria]

I am really, really not trying to offend anyone. And the voted are anonymous, and don't feel you have to tell anyone.

My POV: I think It shouldn't be done, honestly. Although, occasionally, I do forsake the laws of my religion, and have been known to swear using the Lords name, I do not think It should be done. I have a question for all those that think it is ok. Would you use the Prophet Mohammed's (pbuh) name in vain? Allahs'? Buddha, even? I seriously, seriously doubt you would. Because you would not want to offend Muslims, Buddhists, or Sikhs. So why is it different for Christians?

I am NOT trying to start a flame war. Any posts containing offensive material and I will request to have this thread locked immediatly. I don't want to start an arguament, I want to have a mature and calm disscussion. Thanks ^_^

[aric]

cassandria said:

My POV: I think It shouldn't be done, honestly. Although, occasionally, I do forsake the laws of my religion, and have been known to swear using the Lords name, I do not think It should be done.

Personally, I don't see why not. They've become expressions that are a part of our language now. People can get upset about it all they want, but it's not going to change anything.

Besides, I generally don't like censorship.

cassandria said:

I have a question for all those that think it is ok. Would you use the Prophet Mohammed's (pbuh) name in vain? Allahs'? Buddha, even? I seriously, seriously doubt you would. Because you would not want to offend Muslims, Buddhists, or Sikhs. So why is it different for Christians?

[/b][/quote]
If there's a socially-prominent expletive deletive that incorporates those religions, then I'd probably be saying it.



The fact of the matter is, most people in the West are at least nominally Christian. When there are going to be swear words incorporating religious elements, it's going to be Judeo-Christian-based.

- Aric

[cassandria]

It's censorship to ask people not to use the lords name in vain? My friend has actually said to me it's like racism, and if racism can be stopped, why can't insulting religion stop too?

[Anemone]

I don't think God minds "Oh my God!" and it's variations. As has been said already here, it's become so much a part of culture that it's no longer insulting. It's like how Native American people call themselves Indians and African Americans call themselves black. It's been embraced by what used to be the target, so that it doesn't pack the punch it used to.

It's when we start to get more specific (eg. Jesus) that it becomes wrong.

[Barry]

That is a big NO NO! It is written in The Ten Commandments in the book of Exodus. You shall not take the name of the LORD your GOD in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. Exodus 20:7 This is the third Commandment in His laws that he gave us. I'm ashamed of you. This one of the most important laws that GOD gave us. And he made it very clear what He will do to us if we break them. If you read through the Book of Exodus, you will see what GOD did when a person broke one of His laws. GOD keeps saying over and over again "for I the LORD your GOD am a jealous GOD" I don't think He was very happy about it and wasn't very happy for what he had to do about it too.

I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I just wanted to point out
what it says in Exodus.

If this offends anyone here, My apologies.

[aric]

cassandria said:

It's censorship to ask people not to use the lords name in vain?

It’s censorship when you attempt to influence language to fit your standards, especially when you’re thinking about preventing other people from using it.

cassandria said:

My friend has actually said to me it's like racism, and if racism can be stopped, why can't insulting religion stop too?

That’s pure hyperbole. Racism is judging someone based on their skin color. Saying “God **** it!” is an expression that doesn’t hold any intrinsic value judgement (especially negative ones, if you want to use the racism analogy) on religion itself. The primary offense from racism stems from the fact that those who are subjected to it are often actively discriminated against because of that prejudice. In the case of using your Lord’s name in vain, you take offense at that because it breaks a religious rule. I fail to see the underlying similarity. The vast majority of people who swear like that in this country (United Stated) are Christian, you know. You seem to think it’s some sort of bias or deliberate assault on religion, which it is most certainly not.

- Aric

[cassandria]

Lol, Aric, I do not 'seem' to think anything. And I wouldn't know about 'this country' lol, I'm in England. I'm simply pointing out things..I'm not trying to offend you. Please don't get ultra defensive or anything, It's just a friendly debate.

I don't think you, or anyone would use Allah, Muhammed (pbuh), Buddha, or any other God/Godess/Supreme Being in that way, I just don't understand why Christianity should have to put up with it. As for the 'everyone does it' arguament, well, you wouldn't jump off a cliff because 'everyone does it.'

[aric]

cassandria said:

Lol, Aric, I do not 'seem' to think anything.

Forgive me if I think you’re being a little dishonest here. You’re not just “pointing out things,” as you say. The OP indicates that you think people are picking on Christianity. Here’s your opening post:

“I am really, really not trying to offend anyone. And the voted are anonymous, and don't feel you have to tell anyone.

My POV: I think It shouldn't be done, honestly. Although, occasionally, I do forsake the laws of my religion, and have been known to swear using the Lords name, I do not think It should be done. I have a question for all those that think it is ok. Would you use the Prophet Mohammed's (pbuh) name in vain? Allahs'? Buddha, even? I seriously, seriously doubt you would. Because you would not want to offend Muslims, Buddhists, or Sikhs. So why is it different for Christians?”

Emphasis mine. You said that people would allegedly not insult those other religions, but when it comes to Christianity, you said that people would not hesitate to do that. You are alleging that people are either biased or are deliberately insulting Christianity – biased because these “insults” come out so easily by most people in the eyes of some Christians, or deliberate because you think people are going out of their way to insult your religion while they would do back-flips not to insult others.

cassandria said:

Please don't get ultra defensive or anything, It's just a friendly debate.

I’m not being defensive, although I can see how the words in bold might make the text look more aggressive than it was meant to be. I put those there because I didn’t think the italics function would adequately stress the words.

cassandria said:

I don't think you, or anyone would use Allah, Muhammed (pbuh), Buddha, or any other God/Godess/Supreme Being in that way, I just don't understand why Christianity should have to put up with it.

Then here’s a question: Why do you use the Lord’s name in vain? Why not use Odin’s name, or Sam Hain, or the plethora of other deities, messiahs, prophets, and/or supreme beings out there? Could it be because if you want to “*chocolate*” something, you’ll appeal to your own God first? Especially if you’re a monotheist? And even if you're an atheist like me, there are still loads of Christians around for me to learn the context of the usage for those kinds of words.

BTW, what do you mean when you say "I just don't understand why Christianity should have to put up with it."? There are two ways I can take that: 1) you understand that the vast majority of people who swear like that are Christians themselves and you're asking why Christians are insulting their own religion, or 2) you think the insults are coming from non-Christians and thus would further my point about you complaining that people are deliberately picking on Christianity when they swear like that.

cassandria said:

As for the 'everyone does it' arguament, well, you wouldn't jump off a cliff because 'everyone does it.'

Like your racism analogy, this one is also incorrect. Jumping off a bridge because everyone else does it is a deliberate act that requires choice. Swearing is rather reflexive in nature and isn’t preceded (unfortunately) by much thinking. There’s no group think in action when you’re swearing; you’re using words and phrases that are ever-present in the culture and have been taught, in a sense, to use when confronted with certain frustrating situations.

BTW, the fact that you think using the Lord’s name in vain is as deliberate as jumping off a bridge only proves my point that you think people are going out of their way to insult your religion as opposed to simply having a brain fart.

- Aric

[cassandria]

O.O Wow, like seven paragraphs telling me I'm wrong. Not seen that in a while.

I'm actually talking about both Christians and non-Christians. Christians that do it shouldn't, are blatantly ignoring a rule they should respect. I don't believe non-Christians should do it either. I don't really see how Christians influence others to swear like that. I've heard my Muslim friend appealing to Allah to grind something into the ground, and a few other phrases I shall not repeat. Moving on.

I'll say it plainly, you would be sh&t scared to use Allah and Buddha as a swear word. Maybe the root of the problem is the Christian authorities havn't stopped it before it became so 'big' as it is now.

And where I come from, a heck of a lot of people insult Christianity openly. I've heard people say it's a sh%t religion with a sh%t God. Which is quite saddening, actually.

And I really don't want to anger you, I'm not personally attacking you, as if this is how you are normally I'd hate to get you in a temper!

[rex290]

well, i dont belive in heaven or hell and i realy dont like the fact their is someone who has my life planed out before me. i use his name in vain cuz the times i use it call for, mostly here in iraq when *chocolate* hits the fan and round zing past ur head u going to say about evey thing in the book, sry for my lang, but its the truth.

[aric]

cassandria said:

I'm actually talking about both Christians and non-Christians. Christians that do it shouldn't, are blatantly ignoring a rule they should respect.

I suppose that’s up to the Christian to decide which biblical rules make any sense.

cassandria said:

I don't believe non-Christians should do it either. I don't really see how Christians influence others to swear like that. I've heard my Muslim friend appealing to Allah to grind something into the ground, and a few other phrases I shall not repeat. Moving on.

When non-Christians hear this coming from the people of a society where most people are or were Christian (or at least God-believing at one point in their social history), we pick it up too.

cassandria said:

I'll say it plainly, you would be sh&t scared to use Allah and Buddha as a swear word.

You make it sound like the reason someone like myself wouldn’t use Allah or Buddha is primarily because we fear those religions as opposed to not having been raised in that socio-religious milieu, which is what I’m arguing. In order for me to swear using those particular religious figures, I would have to go out of my way to take up those names, names that I barely even heard before let alone hear other people use them in swearing when I was growing up, and construct swear-expressions that haven’t even been used in the society I live in. That would be deliberate and insulting.

cassandria said:

Maybe the root of the problem is the Christian authorities havn't stopped it before it became so 'big' as it is now.

And how would they stop it? Censor it? Use violence like Muslim extremists?

cassandria said:

And where I come from, a heck of a lot of people insult Christianity openly. I've heard people say it's a sh%t religion with a sh%t God. Which is quite saddening, actually.

And is that why they use God’s name in vain? I’m not denying that there are people out there who deliberately insult religion. My issue is whether people who blurt out “God **** it” or “Sweet Jesus!” (in an exasperated way) do it purposefully to insult your religion or as a reflexive expression that has nothing to do with malicious intent or anti-Christian bigotry. You seem to be suggesting that it’s the first one while I‘m telling you it’s the second.

BTW, are you implying that due to other instances of deliberate insults against Christianity, any perceived slight or insult must also be in the same vein?

cassandria said:

And I really don't want to anger you, I'm not personally attacking you, as if this is how you are normally I'd hate to get you in a temper!

I’m not angry, just trying to be systematic. And I do this to friend and foe alike! ;D

- Aric

[cassandria]

Even if people don't purposely mean to insult Christianity, they are doing so, and that is my issue. It should be stopped, or at least awareness of the situation should be increased.

[Soul of Magyk]

I think that taking the lord's name in vain adult-wise is just habit.

They do it as kids to be "cool", then as the years go by, it's just habit to use it when you're ticked or surprised.

I personally had a phase where I said that stuff at least once a day, then..... I don't know.

I think that I just thought it was a sort of a dumb thing to say (especially after my mouth was washed out with soap two times, then I was grounded from friends for a week).

I was about six years old at the time.

[aric]

cassandria said:

Even if people don't purposely mean to insult Christianity, they are doing so, and that is my issue. It should be stopped, or at least awareness of the situation should be increased.

Which begs the question: Why should other people beside you conduct themselves according to your particular religious viewpoints?

And why do you take it so personally when someone else uses God’s name in vain? I would think it’s between them and God rather than them and the temporal God Squad. How does one logically go from “breaking a religious rule” to “insulting religion and religious people”?

Rather than asking everyone else to bend over backwards and police their thoughts and actions, maybe you’re the one who needs to lighten up. There are worse things out there people can do other than using God’s name in vain. Perhaps awareness of the “overly-legalistic religious position” situation should be increased.

- Aric

[Azonthus]

aric said:

Which begs the question: Why should other people beside you conduct themselves according to your particular religious viewpoints?

Because it's a nice way to show respect for me and my beliefs, if not for my God.

I've asked people politely numerous times to please refrain from using my Lord's name in vain around me and they generally are apologetic and nice about it. If someone asked me to never offer them something with my left hand because of their religious belief, I would attempt to make every effort to accommodate them, even if I would see it as something silly.