aric
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Post by aric on Sept 16, 2005 0:48:21 GMT -5
In case any of you are curious as to how such as versus scenario plays out *cough*Stefan*cough*, here's is a long debate about it over at Stardestroyer.net. Enjoy. I think you'll find it quite interesting. Star Wars Versus Warhammer 40K- Aric |
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Post by Christopher on Sept 17, 2005 12:59:53 GMT -5
Neat, I've been meaning to write a fanfic about one of those two invading the other (I have gotten better at writing after that first peice of crap I put on the Dragon's Lair), I just never got enough time to type any of it.
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aric
demi-admin
I drink your milkshake!
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Post by aric on Sept 18, 2005 2:40:28 GMT -5
Ooooooo! I love crossover fics.
It'll be interesting to see how that goes down. If you need any information about Star Wars or Warhammer 40K, then just ask.
The sum of that gigantic thread is that the Empire would stomp the Imperium of Man in space. On the ground, WH40K is superior, but without control of space, they can get pounded into dust from orbit...
- Aric
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Post by Christopher on Sept 18, 2005 12:06:05 GMT -5
Me too, I just wish I had the time to write one. The original idea was Star wars versus Emperor of the Fading Suns game, but no one really knows what that is/was, so I chose Warhammer instead.
I don't need to ask about Warhammer 40k, but I might ask a bit about Star Wars.
Hey! The imperium has superior control of space! They have excellent battlships, and they have the space marines! Even if they couldn't destroy star wars ships with their own ships, alls they would have to do was get a boarding party on a few star destroyers, and it would be all over. And the Imperium can do orbital bombings.
And I agree, Warhammer has superior ground troops. Their ground troops are the same reason they have superior space control, too.
There used to be a warhammer game that was all about space combat in warhammer; I don't think they make it anymore though. (The name of it slips me, so I have to thumb through my old White Dwarf magazines)
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aric
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I drink your milkshake!
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Post by aric on Sept 18, 2005 20:05:28 GMT -5
Me too, I just wish I had the time to write one. The original idea was Star wars versus Emperor of the Fading Suns game, but no one really knows what that is/was, so I chose Warhammer instead. *scratches head* Yeah, never heard of that one. However, if you had written a fic about it, more people would know about it. I don't need to ask about Warhammer 40k, but I might ask a bit about Star Wars. Feel free to ask away. Hey! The imperium has superior control of space! According to Andy Chambers, the Imperium doesn't have more than half a million ships across the galaxy. Conservative estimates of the Galactic Empire place the number of warships at 12.5 million galaxy-wide. More accurate figures give the Empire 840 million warships. Obviously the Imperium is top dog in its own galaxy, but it rather pales in comparison to the Empire. The average travel time across the galaxy in Warhammer is several years if not decades due to conditions of the warp. Star Wars hyperspace takes, on average, two or three days for most ships to cross the galaxy. ROTS shows even faster speeds. Palpatine went from Coruscant in the Core to Mustafar in the Outer Rim in less than a couple of hours. Star Wars ships can come out of hyperspace right on top of a planet (Battle of Coruscant). Imperium warships have to come out of the Warp outside of the system so that the gravity of the star doesn't blow up the FTL drives. Starship weapons for the Imperium have been rated at middle gigaton to low teratons based on the novels. The Venator-class Star Destroyer (ROTS) has Heavy Turbolaser (HTL) shots rated at 10 Teratons per shot. An Imperial Star Destroyer is going to have comparable yields. Also, when the entirety of the reactor is dedicated to HTLs, Star Destroyers can fire a few hundred teratons worth of shots, albeit for a very limited amount of time. Medium Turbolaser (MTLs) are rated at 200 to 500 gigatons. Light Turbolasers (LTLs) top out at about 6 megatons per shot. Imperium fighters might be superior to that of SW, though. TIE fighters fire one or two kilotons per shot. The fluff says they don't have shields, even though in ANH, they do have shields... They have excellent battlships Individually, they might be able to take on SW ships, assuming Imperial captains give them the chance. SW warships have ten light-minute ranges for their weapons. Also, they use an incredible amount of electronic countermeasures (ECM) when in battle. This messes with enemy sensors. The Imperium (of Man) has absolutely no idea what ECM is. This is evidenced by the fact that they had no idea what was happening when the Chaos planet killer blacked out communications with the planets it was attacking. Also, as mentioned before, there are a hell of a lot more ships in the Empire than there is in the Imperium. Even with heavy losses, they can be replaced easily. Remember, the Death Star II was built up to the point it was in ROTJ in six months. The original took three years to build. BTW, the one you see in ROTS is not the Death Star from ANH. and they have the space marines! Space marines are awesome. But, that depends on how they're deployed. If they can teleport onto Imperial ships, then they'd destroy the ship. However, it doesn't take a genius to figure out not to get within teleporter range of Imperium warships. It won't be a lasting tactic. Also, Dark Troopers are the rough equals of Space Marines. They're heavily armored, can carry heavy weapons, and can fly. They can also be mass-produced since they're battle droids. Of course, it might take a while for production to get into gear. Even if they couldn't destroy star wars ships with their own ships, alls they would have to do was get a boarding party on a few star destroyers, and it would be all over. They'd be able to destroy those ships, or the captain would have it self-destruct to prevent it from being taken. In any case, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you need to keep your distance from Imperium warships. And the Imperium can do orbital bombings. True, though nothing on the level of SW ships. Exterminatus, IIRC, is largely a biological weapon. Imperium warships can bombard conventionally, but the power output of a fleet of Imperium warships is either matched or exceeded by a single Star Destroyer. In SW, there's something called a Base Delta Zero. It basically means that the entire surface of the planet, often all the way down to ten kilometers deep, is turned into molten rock. The atmosphere is stripped away. This is by one Imperial warship, mind you. And I agree, Warhammer has superior ground troops. Their ground troops are the same reason they have superior space control, too. That doesn't logically follow. How does having good ground troops mean you have superior space control? If an Imperial strike force came out of hyperspace 40 millions miles away from an Imperium world protected by an Imperium fleet and starts destroying the ships from long range, how are the ground forces supposed to respond? If anything, ground pounders are at the mercy of space and air action. Once you have control of space, enemy troops are cut off from supplies and reinforcements. They'd be at the mercy of orbital bombardments. And considering SW level firepower, even space marines wouldn't survive that. There used to be a warhammer game that was all about space combat in warhammer; I don't think they make it anymore though. (The name of it slips me, so I have to thumb through my old White Dwarf magazines) Are you talking about Battlefleet Gothic? It's still around. You can go to either citadel miniatures or Forgeworld to take a look at the models. Anyway, I just started out with the Imperium because it's the baseline group for Warhammer. Hope that helped with your fanfic.  - Aric |
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Post by Christopher on Sept 18, 2005 20:31:42 GMT -5
It was an old strategy game by talonsoft. I love it, but can't really play it anymore, since it dosen't work with Windows XP. If I do write about it, it would have to be something resembling it, but not based on it, since I can't check on some parts of the game, anymore. *Only reply to all that technical stuff* The Imperium rules! It seems they are adequate enough to put up a good fight in space. Especially when you throw in that the SW empire can't send their whole fleet (because they still have to cover their own galaxy, and it would be alot of trouble to try to cover two of them), and they are not crossing a galaxy, but a universe (So that will have a huge affect on how many they can send, and how long it takes them to arrive). So basically the Imperium has the home field advantage over the Empire. (Because I doubt the Imperium could mount an invasion against the SW galaxy). It went with the whole boarding party thing. Which you already shot to hell. Though I'm sure the Imperium can get a good number of boarding done at first. And maybe get lucky once or twice, after the Empire learns getting close is stupid. Yeah, that's the one (thanks). I didn't know if it was still around or not. I'm not really interested in it, I was just mentioning it. Oh yeah. The empire wouldn't have just the Imperium to worry about, they'd also have to fight the Eldar, Orcs, Tryanids (Gigantic legions of mindless killing machines), Necrons (Regenerating robots), Chaos Marines (endless hordes of demons, possessed marines, and a crap load of fanatical nuts), Mutants, and all sorts of other nasty creatures. Sort of. It did give me more info on the ships, but it still didn't provide me with time to write. If anything it wasted time...so it hurt...thanks alot...J/K Oh, and your forgetting a big advantage. Warhammer has magic (or something like it)!!! Let's see those stormtroopers fight a horde of summoned demons! Or holy rage raining down from space! |
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aric
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Post by aric on Sept 18, 2005 20:57:16 GMT -5
*Only reply to all that technical stuff* The Imperium rules! It seems they are adequate enough to put up a good fight in space. Especially when you throw in that the SW empire can't send their whole fleet (because they still have to cover their own galaxy, and it would be alot of trouble to try to cover two of them), The Empire doesn't need its entire fleet. Just a task force of a few hundred or few thousand ships that can hit Imperium targets then hyper out of there and go on to the next system. There is no way the Imperium can respond adequately to that kind of guerrilla tactic. and they are not crossing a galaxy, but a universe (So that will have a huge affect on how many they can send, and how long it takes them to arrive). All of the crossover fanfics that I read about has the plot convention of a wormhole suddenly opeing up between the two galaxies. That's an instant two-way gate between the two galaxies. It's a bit over done since almost everybody in the sci-fi crossover community uses it - including myself... However, it's tried and true. Once you set it up, you can move on with the neat comparative stuff. So basically the Imperium has the home field advantage over the Empire. (Because I doubt the Imperium could mount an invasion against the SW galaxy). Yeah. The hyperspace ranges and speeds I list are from the SW galaxy. Starmaps are necessary for that. The Empire would need to produce millions of probe droids and send them everywhere to start mapping out the WH galaxy. Or, they could just support a traitor system and get local maps from them. It went with the whole boarding party thing. Which you already shot to hell. Though I'm sure the Imperium can get a good number of boarding done at first. And maybe get lucky once or twice, after the Empire learns getting close is stupid. Yeah. Yeah, that's the one (thanks). I didn't know if it was still around or not. I'm not really interested in it, I was just mentioning it. I don't play it either, though it's still nice to look at it. I especially like the new Chaos fighter from Forgeworld. Nice and dagger-like. Oh yeah. The empire wouldn't have just the Imperium to worry about, they'd also have to fight the Eldar, Orcs, Tryanids (Gigantic legions of mindless killing machines), Necrons (Regenerating robots), Chaos Marines (endless hordes of demons, possessed marines, and a crap load of fanatical nuts), Mutants, and all sorts of other nasty creatures. If the Empire can deal with the Imperium, then it can deal with the lesser threats. I'm a bit worried about the Necrons, though. I don't know too much about them, but from what I hear, they're kinda scary. Oh, and your forgetting a big advantage. Warhammer has magic (or something like it)!!! Let's see those stormtroopers fight a horde of summoned demons! Or holy rage raining down from space! I'm not too worried about Chaos. Golden Age humanity fended off Chaos without God-Emperor worship. I'm inclined to think that the potential for corruption is low. And once those demons take physical form, they can be killed. SW blasters are like grenade launchers. When the bolt hits something, it explodes sending bits of shrapnel all of the place. Actually, my personal fantasy is that there's limited cooperation between Chaos and the Empire since both would want the Imperium gone. Abaddon hates the God-Emperor for killing his father, and Palpatine couldn't stand the idea of a rival Emperor. Obviously this would be a marriage of convenience. It's incredibly unstable. Chaos could backstab Imperial forces, and vice versa. - Aric |
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Post by Christopher on Sept 19, 2005 20:32:14 GMT -5
Wouldn't the Imperium have more wartime experience, since they are constatnly fighting?
And I don't care what arguments come up, I'm still going to say the Imperium will manage to defend themselves. I imagine you feel the same about the Empire. I don't really see why the Empire would want that constant war zone, anyway.
And I managed to find how to fix the Emperor of the Fading Suns game! (not that you really care...)
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aric
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Post by aric on Sept 19, 2005 23:50:02 GMT -5
Wouldn't the Imperium have more wartime experience, since they are constatnly fighting? Sure, but that probably won't help them overcome their technological limitations. African Masai warriors would probably be more experiened in warfare than I am. However, I can win by dropping an atom bomb on them. And I don't care what arguments come up, I'm still going to say the Imperium will manage to defend themselves. Sure. There are ways of doing this without distorting anything. The entire Empire doesn't have to invade. Perhaps one Augmented Sector Fleet of 42,000 ships. The first thing the Imperials would do is to establish a beachhead at the wormhole and start reconnoitering their immediate region of space. This would be when they're most vulnerable to the forces of the Warhammer galaxy. However, once the Empire stabilizes the wormhole, possibly expands it to move Deep Docks through, and to move greater numbers of ships into the Warhammer galaxy, the Empire can establish a permanent military presence in the galaxy. An interesting angle to look at would be the huge amounts of traitor systems that may flock to the Empire. For the first time since the Clone Wars, the Imperial starfleet and stormtroopers may be welcomed as saviors and liberators. I imagine you feel the same about the Empire. Of course. Because they can. I don't really see why the Empire would want that constant war zone, anyway. For the same reason the Empire didn't immediately destroy the rebellion when it formed at the birth of the Empire. Palpatine uses threats in order to maintain his power. First it was the Clone Wars, then the Rebellion gave him cause to build up the Imperial Starfleet and dissolve the Senate. The Warhammer Galaxy would be perfect for Palpatine. He could just point to a great and despotic enemy (ironically, one that's even worse than his own) in the form of the Imperium and start militarizing even more. Raising taxes and conscripts will be a lot easier. He could demonize the Rebels and their supporters by saying that their opposition to his regime is hindering the Empire's ability to mobilize against this new threat. Palpatine could kill two birds with one stone. - Aric |
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Post by Christopher on Sept 21, 2005 19:08:53 GMT -5
Of course it would. Combat experience always has an affect on battles. By using past experiences they could probably come up with a battle plan to counter their lack of technology. That's just a waste of a good atom bomb...oh and that culture. No they can't. The Imperium will prevail. *Reply to last bit there* Ah, makes perfect sense. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Couldn't the Imperium establish an alliance with the rebels? (that is if they are willing to make a compact with xenos) It would be hilarious when the inquisition kills the first few jedi ambassadors. They could ask for technology, in exchange for industrial support. |
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aric
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Post by aric on Sept 22, 2005 21:11:01 GMT -5
Of course it would. Combat experience always has an affect on battles. By using past experiences they could probably come up with a battle plan to counter their lack of technology. That's a bit of a no-limits fallacy. They might be able to come up with countermeasures to lessen the effectiveness of Imperial attacks. However, unless they can come up with ways to actually stop the Imperial Starfleet, all their experience isn't going to do anything to stop defeat. That's just a waste of a good atom bomb...oh and that culture. Ah, but I've won. Throwing around that kind of firepower is nothing to the Empire. I doubt they'd care about their opponents' cultures as well. No they can't. The Imperium will prevail. ;D *Reply to last bit there* Ah, makes perfect sense. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Couldn't the Imperium establish an alliance with the rebels? (that is if they are willing to make a compact with xenos) It would be hilarious when the inquisition kills the first few jedi ambassadors. That depends on when you choose to set your fanfic. If it's during the height of the Empire (original trilogy), then the only Jedi would be Yoda and Luke Skywalker. Maybe not even Luke since he isn't a full Jedi all through the trilogy. If it's sometime during the Dark Empire period, then you might have better chances of Jedi coming into contact with Imperium forces. This takes place six years after the Battle of Endor. Emperor Palpatine is resurrected through the use of clone bodies. He's much more powerful. He and his Starfleets have destroyed the first New Republic and have started to retake the galaxy. The New republic is once again the Rebel Alliance. For the purpose of interest, I would suggest either the time period of the original trilogy or Dark Empire. If you want a significantly weakened Empire, then you might want to consider any point after Dark Empire. However, by the time you get to the Thrawn Trilogy, there's really nothing left of the Empire except for some small region powers. They could ask for technology, in exchange for industrial support. Honestly, I don't think the Rebels would do business with the Imperium. As I said before, the Imperium of Man is worse in almost all respects than the Galactic Empire. The God-Emperor's advisors have even less repect for liberal democracy than Palpatine does. I doubt the Mon Calamari and other non-human Rebels would take kindly to allying with such an openly xenophobic organization such as the IOM. Not to mention the butt-backwards mentality of the humans of the IOM. Rather than empirical science, they rely on religious incantations and superstition to make their machines run. In other words, they don't even understand how their own equipment works. They can't even make warships the way they used to before the Heresy. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rebels call a ceasefire in their activities to allow the Empire to destroy the threat. Then, once GE forces have prevailed in the Milky Way, they would probably re-initiate hostilities. My bet is that they would attack the wormhole installation so that the GE can't take advantage of two galaxies' worth of resources. - Aric |
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Post by utoraptor3000 on Oct 4, 2005 14:35:43 GMT -5
thanks for posting that obne.
i love starwars
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