Bix's loopy behavior

[Azonthus]

n/a
Bix's loopy behavior
Wed Aug 30, 2006 22:43
64.136.27.228

The other day, I was listenning to the ZBC audio book of "Dinotopia: A Land Apart from Time" and following along with my book when I noticed something odd.

When Arthur and Will first meet Bix, the distinguished Protoceratops ambassador and translator, she is squawking and making seemingly threatening advances. I'm sure Arthur and Will looked like they had just been shipwrecked (torn clothing, scruffy appearances), and they were speaking to each other excitedly in English - even their tense body language should have tipped her off. Why didn't Bix simply address them in a human language (Arthur seems at least partially fluent in a few languages besides English, including French and German) in order to avoid any misundertandings or incidents (such as the rock throwing)? Why was she still speaking saurian and acting peculiar?

rusty
perhaps she was excited?
Thu Aug 31, 2006 00:29
72.78.114.46

Maybe she was so excited over a newcomer, words failed her. Remember, as she's being carted away, she does say "yank ank kee" - "Yankee," a very befitting nickname for the duo.

The ZBC audio adventures are very good, but sometimes silly...maybe it was just the recorder's personal flair? Have you heard TWB? That one is just silly!

breathe deep, seek wonders

~*rusty*~

Croco and Speedwing
Where can we find the audio books?
Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:55
161.243.63.70

I'm sure me and Min would die laughing over quite a few lines.


Dwaggie
Dinotopia on audio
Thu Aug 31, 2006 14:11
67.140.8.228

I would love to get a hold of those. =D

— Barry


n/a
Re: Dinotopia on audio
Thu Aug 31, 2006 23:42
64.136.27.228

I think Amazaon.com might still have a few copies. That's where I got mine.

I admit, the voice-acting was silly at times (and Will's voice took some time getting used to) but I really enjoy the audio books. The actor portraying Arthur did an excellent job in my opinion. I wish "The Lost World" audio adventure (based on Michael Crichton's novel) had a similar treatment; all we got was a single man reading all the lines (males and females) and no background ambiance what-so-ever. Dull...


Aven Bluewing
I really need to start reading these books...
Mon Sep 4, 2006 17:55
64.201.67.49

I just can't find them anywhere. I feel a bit lost. Ahk, oh well.

BD, SP

Aven


Dwaggie
Books
Mon Sep 4, 2006 20:15
67.140.9.95

Well, you can buy them from the Dinotopian Store.

— Barry

Rosa
The digest novels
Wed Sep 6, 2006 10:19
150.208.77.253

The problem about the Dinotopia Store is that You can't order any of the digest novels anymore. I've been wanting to read "Sky Dance" for ages now and can't figure out how I can order a new copy from anywhere. There's no new copies at Barns and Nobe or Amazon. Have any of ya'll read Sky Dance? How is it? All I know is that it's about a boy and dinosaur that join a band of traveling entertainers and that alone fascinates me. But I just can't seem to be able to get my hands on the book!

*sighs in frustration*


Highsoar
ABE.com
Wed Sep 6, 2006 10:58
66.99.23.200

(Advanced Book Exchange. Here's the search results link, they have several copies. They should have most of the other books too.)

www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&y=0&tn=Sky+Dance&x=0

Fly high, seek peace, God bless
Highsoar


Dwaggie
You can also try Amazon.com too. n/t (nm)
Wed Sep 6, 2006 15:42
67.140.10.26

Amber the Velociraptor
Or perhaps....
Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:16
86.138.126.245

Perhaps Bix was

a) trying a VERY old human dialect of some sort
b) Calling to her human companion in some dialect of saurian or human Dinotipian
c) Wary of speaking a language in case there was some sort of inter-human confklict and the wrong language might have got her attacked?

Just a few thoughts

Amber


Highsoar
It is true she might've been wary
Fri Sep 1, 2006 00:54
67.162.114.170

...given how many humans would react to a talking animal of any kind, let alone a supposedly extinct one.

FH, SP, God bless
Highsoar


n/a
Actions befitting an ambassador?
Fri Sep 1, 2006 19:48
64.136.49.226

Advancing the way she did created the misunderstanding and led to the stone incident. Had she spoken in their language, she could have told them to not be alarmed and such. Arthur might have hesitated in throwing the stone. I imagine that Bix would have observed the dolphinbacks first before revealing herself, then approach them in a fashion least likely to cause alarm - I mean, in spite of her being a dinosaur. It seems strange that an ambassador would act so, well - strangely.

On the other hand, the digest books indicate that the basic Dinotopian language can be understood by all, even dolphinbacks (correct me if I'm wrong on this. It's been a while since I've picked up the digest novels) - perhaps because it is a conglomeration of human and saurian dialogues. Hugh and Raymond in "Windchaser" were able to understand Bix clearly. Perhaps she was trying to communicate similarly with Arthur and Will, but the humans were too freaked and reacted on whim (Arthur did have a strong need to protect his son after their ordeal).

In addition to this, Hugh and Raymond met Bix after they arrived at the Hatchery. Perhaps the shock of seeing a talking dinosaur after witnessing humans and other dinosaurs working together was less severe. Plus, Hugh was pretty convinced he was having a hallucination because of the fruit he ate.

These are all great theories so far. Maybe we could also discuss other Dinotopia story oddities. There are quite a few in "First Flight".


Highsoar
*nod* Good point. And I know a couple oddities in FF
Sat Sep 2, 2006 02:00
67.162.114.170

...Mostly the apperance of the Skybax Avatar being so different from modern Skybaxes. And the whole confusion with the Ruby Sunstone.

What else is there?

Fly high, seek peace God bless
Highsoar


Azon†hµs
Hm....
Thu Aug 31, 2006 18:33
69.223.137.237

Well, I'm not going to have to get my Dinotopia Audio Adventure out of it's little box and listen to it! It's been a looooooooooong time since I've listened to the audio adventures anyway, so it won't hurt to hear it again.

Barry- you can buy them at the Dinotopia store on Dinotopia.com. Sorry, but I don't have any extras or I'd offer them to you. And, there's always e-bay. Best of luck finding them!

RF, SP,

Az

[Azonthus]

Highsoar
*nod*
Sun Sep 3, 2006 01:42
67.162.114.170

I've wondered about things like that too...there are other examples like the ones you mention...and also why the Dinotopians and saurians themselves used the same names we coined later...you'd think especially the saurians would call themselves by other names. the AU thing could work...I would say Gurney was trying to make it easier for readers but the questions still arise.

Wait, didn't it say in the beginning that the book was in a 'strange script'? Perhaps the modern names were inserted in translation if the book had to be translated. Although the script on the pages is supposed to be Arthur's handwriting...*sigh*

FH, SP, GB
Highsoar


n/a
Re: *nod*
Sun Sep 3, 2006 18:25
4.234.255.209

I've always thought it odd that some of the dinosaurs mentioned throughout the series (Mr. Gurney's novels and the others) were ones named after places in the outside world: Albertosaurus, Mammenchisaurus, Toujuangosaurus (I probably spelled that wrong)...It would probably be a bit more confusing if the Dinosaurs had been named like the ones in "The Land Apart from Time" series - every sauropod would be reffered to as a "Long Neck" and all the carnivores would be "Sharp Teeth". That could get very old and confusing very fast - especially since only Mr. Gurney's books are illustrated.

Well, I still enjoy the series despite the Idiosyncrasies. The books are a joy to read. I just hope "Journey to Chandara" doesn't present more story quirks and contradictions like "First Flight" did.


Paddlefoot
RE:Re:*nod*
Sat Sep 9, 2006 13:20
209.149.99.2

remember, Dinotopian and the Saurian languages are diferant (sometimes majorly so) from modern english (or whatever else you may speak). Perhaps on Dinotopia names are much differant, but in the translation they were converted into words we understand. in Lord of the Rings, the common speech 'Westron' is read like 1940's british-engish, the reason: it was translated so that people could read the book. we wouldn't understand if names etc. were still in dinotopian.

Breath Deep,
Seek Wisdom,
Find Peace,
Paddlefoot


n/a
I don't think Arthur knew Bix was a dinosaur...
Sat Sep 2, 2006 17:37
64.136.27.228

when he initially saw her. ALAFT takes place in 1862. The first genus of Protoceratops wasn't discovered until the 1920s by Roy Chapman Andrews's Mongolian expedition. I think Arthur just assumed that Bix was a hitherto undiscovered species of animal; much of the world was still being explored at that time )the Denison's were on a voyage of discovery); and Charles Darmin had just published his "On the Origin of Species" a few years earlier (1859 if I'm not mistaken). Arthur would have been aware that islands are known to have unique animal species.

I think he realized Bix was a dinosaur after the other saurians arrived to help her. Formal dinosaur paleontology was in its infancy at the time - as a matter of fact, many of the saurian species that confronted the Denisons were unknown until the 1870s, during the infamous Bone Wars between Edward Drinker Cope and Othniel Charles Marsh. Very few North American Dinosaur specimens were well known by the scientific community - Hadrosaurus was discovered in 1858 and it was the first full skeleton of a dinosaur found in North America. The term Dinosauria was formally coined in 1842 (a scant 2 decades before ALAFT). I mean, Arthur probably would have guessed that the creatures were dinosaurs because they fit the description (giant reptiles) - and he did say he recognized the representatives of family Iguanodontidae (most likely because Iguanodon was the first recognized dinosaur and the second named after Megalosaurus). But again, it's strange that he even recognized the Iguanodons because before the 1878 descovery of complete specimens in a coal mine in Bernissart, Belgium, paleontologists had a completely different reconstruction of the dinosaur - the thumb spike was mistakenly placed on the nose and the creature's build was bulkier and more lizard-like and quadrupedal.

And furthermore, how the heck did Arthur know about Tyrannosaurus rex? The first specimen wasn't discovered until 1892, and it wasn't even known as T.rex until after the second specimen was found in 1900 by Barnum Brown. Tyrannosaurus rex was finally named in 1902. Arthur couldn't have known about the species since he was shipwrecked in 1862.

Argh! My brain hurts. I didn't even consider any of this until now. Sorry I went off on that rant and totally off-topic. Maybe "Dinotopia" takes place in an alternate reality where these discoveries were made prior to the events in the book. I realize it's just fiction and all - and artistic liscence does give one a lot of leeway - but...

[Azonthus]

Paddlefoot
it was being told from....
Sat Sep 2, 2006 14:48
209.149.99.2

it was bieng told from arthur's point of view, and perhaps he was excited to see a saurian, so he didn't understand the saurian version of english at first.
also, as fluent at the language as bix can get, she still uses dinotopian accents, dialects, and her own saurian voice.

just thaughts....

Breath Deep,
Seek Wisdom,
Find Peace,
PADDLEFOOT


Paddlefoot
the point is, maby arthur was confused. n/t (nm)
Sun Sep 3, 2006 20:28
209.149.99.2

n/a
I see what you mean, Paddlefoot - The Rashomon Complex
Mon Sep 4, 2006 01:07
64.136.27.228

Because "ALAFT" was written from Arthur's point-of-view, we the audience are only privy to his account of the situation. Bix herself probably has a completely different POV of what happened - She tried to communicate, but Arthur (motivated by fear and a need to protect his son) acted out of fear and (understandable) ignorance. That does make more sense... Perhaps even Will has a different perspective - he did seem to sympathize for Bix immediately after she was injured (in the audio drama, anyway; we're not given much info on his perspective of the incident in the book).

Isn't it cool how we've manage to delve into the workings of the human and saurian psyche?

Azon†hµs
I think you guys are doing a great job!
Mon Sep 4, 2006 04:00
69.223.128.154

This is one awesome discussion and you are NOT wandering off topic, n/a! In fact, you have shed some light on some things that I haddn't noticed before; such as how Arthur would know about T. Rex. I am assuming that Arthur would have known what dinosaurs are because he is a scientist and would have been interested in such discoveries. But, his knowlege of suck things would be limited to 1860 and not 1862 when they landed. Will and Arthur were traveling for two years before they were shipwrecked and any information from America or England would be slow to reach them. Clearly, they had been traveling quite a bit as the dolphins that rescued them had been following their ship since they left Hong Kong.

Here's another thought on Arthur's reaction to Bix; maybe he thought she was something similar to a komodo dragon. Komodo dragons were discovered in 1912, but he was traveling in the area and may have stopped in Indonesia. Surely locals would have warned him and his son about the dangers of these sometimes man-eating lizards. When they were shipwrecked on Dinotopia and a creature that appeared from the jungle started coming towards Will, Arthur acted to protect his son. In fact, the book even states that "[Bix] circled us, squawking like a parrot through its beaklike mouth, reaching a foot towards Will as though seeking a meal." Any father would have thrown that rock!

RF, SP,

Az


n/a
Komodo Dragon **shudders**
Mon Sep 4, 2006 17:40
64.136.27.228

I like your idea about the Komodo Dragon, Azonthus. I'd freak out if any giant lizard made a move towards me (especially since I'm not exactly a fan of garden variety geckos *shudders*). Even large iguanas can be somewhat terrifying at first glace: we have a huge one that hangs out on our property (plus a couple slightly smaller ones). After Hurricane Wilma came through last year, the big iguana was out and about quite often and unnerved the workers we hired to repair our fences. He's actually quite docile (I think he was a pet at some point in his youth), but big enough to scare even grown men. It would have been even scarier for Arthur, a man trying to protect his son after they'd been shipwrecked on an uncharted island. Maybe Arthur even equated Bix with any large reptile - a lot of larger reptiles like crocodiles, alligators, and monitor lizards sometimes attack humans.

If Arthur even visited Africa, he may have encountered large monitor lizards or was told about them - just like your theory on how he may have encountered rumors about Komodo's if he visited Indonesia. Heck, if Arthur had heard the rumors about the komodos, he may have even assumed that Bix was the legendary lizard.

I've also heard a theory that humans tend to be afraid of reptiles because of our shared ancestry with them (I think that's how the theory goes). As warm-blooded creatures, we're nervous around cold-blooded creatures that don't seem to have the same fearful respect of humans that most warm-blooded predators like lion and tigers do. gators, crocs, and komodos tend to view humans as any other prey item, which conflicts with mankind's desire to be at the top of the food chain.

I really like this discussion. It's been a while since I've been involved in an in-depth discussion about a Dinotopia topic. We really need to do this more often. As a work of literature, "Dinotopia" begs to be discussed and analyzed as deeply as any other novel, be it classic or contemporary. Who better to disect the series than its loving fan base.