Michael Moore's Open Letter

[Stouthorn]

Say what you will about Michael Moore, but...actually, just say what you will about him. This is a discussion forum, ain't it?
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Sunday, September 11th, 2005
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore


To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:

On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?

How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main qualification was that he ran horse shows?

That's right. Horse shows.

I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or catastrophe.

I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.

Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show runner, the ..2 and ..3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?

When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?

When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a threat that was never there?

Do you really believe that turning over important government services to private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?

Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?

With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?

Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.

That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this while New Orleans sank under water.

It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"

My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of the world?

And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?

Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.

Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?

I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?

I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
[e-mail]
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Discussion begins....now!

[Vorchia]

APPLAUSE ;D

He said everything, everything I would say. I tried to say it but I didn´t do so well in my reaction to Katrina. But he voiced it all. Like he did before, I like Michael Moore. I know that its politically incorrect according to most Americans but that man knows what he´s saying. And he dares to SAY it.

Liberty liberty, liberty to die and let die in a Christian nation. God Bless America for God´s blessing is the only help your poor are going to GET isn´t it. It sure looks like it.

U.S.A´s precious Liberty ideals are derived from the slogan of the French revolution. But slogan that wasn´t just liberty, it was also brotherhood and equality. America plays it easy by taking just the liberty while spitting france in the face and mocking it with ´freedom fries´ and ´freedom´ kissing. Well freedom and liberty have been taken to the brink where people were so darn free, they even freed themselves of the most basic morals and conscience, much less mercy.
People have been free enough to kill hundreds of innocents in a war that STILL hasn´t been proved to be just and maybe never will. Poeple have been free enough to let go of that human compassion and care for their people, their citizins, neighbours. Let those who don´t have the financial means to save themselves die, drown, rot in the ruins of a drowned city untill help arrives from OVERSEA to a poor city in the richest and most powerwul nation on earth. How deep will America sink.
What happened to compassion, what happened to love of your people, what happened to people caring for each other. What happened to people caring enough to do their jobs well and protect those they have been elected to protect and do it well.
DO the rich need that much money while the poor starve, DO you need those tax cuts for the rich indeed. Oh yes I know you have statistics against you. Here we just get the worst poeple out of a 16 million population in our government, You get the worst out of what, 200 million.

Most of the time I like America and it hurts to see these things happen. It hurts more then it should as it isn´t my country but no country really is. I´m just some idiot who is a foreigner in any country, even in the Netherlands, where I´ve lived all my life but the first few months of it.

The only thing sacred in this world, appears to be money these days...

Go ahead, smite me, I usually keep my big mouth shut when I feel my opinion is politically incorrect, but this, this begged for it.

[RedFeather]

Yeah, that was quite something to read. I think it voiced the feelings of many, myself included.

[Azonthus]

To tell the truth, I was so disgusted by the whole thing that I couldn't finish it. You know who cut the funding to FEMA and the military? CLINTON. That happened during the Clinton administration and Bush has been trying to increase funding for it.

Tax cuts for the rich? Try tax cuts for everybody! I believe taxes should be the same percentage for everybody and this stupid bracket system is insane. Just because people make more money does not mean they should have to give up a larger percentage of it than the poor people. It may be easy to dehumanize the rich because they have more money than others and they're grouped under the title 'the rich' and not given faces. Well, they're human too and try to make a buck ever bit as hard as everyone else.

Privitization is GOOD for businesses. You get more competition and better service because there's always somebody else willing to do your job if you can't do it well enough. From this competition you get quality. With no competition in government run organizations, people get lazy and complacent.

I personally want to know what Mr. Moore was doing the day the levies broke. Sitting there thinking of a wonderful letter to write? Or was he trying to get aid together? He may speak loudly, but what has he done to help?

If 'we' did this to America, then those who don't want something to happen should vote and call their congressmen. Don't sit back and gripe about it, DO SOMETHING.

Ok, rant over before I shove my foot further down my mouth. You wanted discussion, you got another view;)

[aric]

admin said:

To tell the truth, I was so disgusted by the whole thing that I couldn't finish it. You know who cut the funding to FEMA and the military? CLINTON. That happened during the Clinton administration and Bush has been trying to increase funding for it.

Yeah, it started with Clinton, but as I pointed out in another thread, the money Bush "tried" top raise went, by and large, to the anti-terrorism parts of Homeland Security. Bush hurt FEMA even more with his security measures, not to mention the people he appointed into key government positions.

It's also Bush and the Republicans shooting their mouths off and telling the public that their ways can keep people safe. Something that hasn't happened in Lousisiana and Mississippi.

Of course, I think Bush was a convenient target here. I think the Republican-dominated Congress is just as guilty, if not moreso, as Bush.

Now, when I say Republican-dominated, I include the Democrats who were cowed by the militant and jingoistc talk of "patriotism" and "freedom fries."

In anycase, looking at Moore's letter, it's not just an attack on Bush. It's an attack on conservative ideology as a whole.

admin said:

Tax cuts for the rich? Try tax cuts for everybody!

All things are not equal. The rich benefit the most proportionally from this tax cut.

And as the economy's current stagnant state has shown, the trickle-down (AKA *chocolate* on the Poor) theory of Reaganomics isn't working as well as some people hoped.

admin said:

I believe taxes should be the same percentage for everybody and this stupid bracket system is insane. Just because people make more money does not mean they should have to give up a larger percentage of it than the poor people. It may be easy to dehumanize the rich because they have more money than others and they're grouped under the title 'the rich' and not given faces.

The flat tax is ridiculous. It doesn't take into to account the fact that rich people are still incredibly well off after taxes. Moreso than everyone else who would have to pay the same percentage of their yearly income. Rich people are the ones who can most afford to pay taxes.

admin said:

Well, they're human too and try to make a buck ever bit as hard as everyone else.

You'll forgive me if I don't sympathize with people who don't work 55 hours a week at two jobs to support themselves. All things are not equal, as any American should realize. The rich can most afford to pay taxes since they won't suffer as much after taxes as someone, let's say a couple in the middle class, who has to pay bills and a mortage or two.

admin said:

Privitization is GOOD for businesses. You get more competition and better service because there's always somebody else willing to do your job if you can't do it well enough. From this competition you get quality. With no competition in government run organizations, people get lazy and complacent.

In order to assure fair competition, you need government regulation. Competition isn't a natural part of the market. Predation is. Just look at corporate abuse in the latter half of the 19th century. You had everything from monopolies to dirt-low wages. You'll forgive me if I don't think the market is America's savior. I don't think that a system whose primary operating value is greed should be given such unwavering support.

admin said:

I personally want to know what Mr. Moore was doing the day the levies broke. Sitting there thinking of a wonderful letter to write? Or was he trying to get aid together? He may speak loudly, but what has he done to help?

Considering that he's not the President, I don't see what relevance this has other than to move the point of discussion away from Bush and conservative ideology.

admin said:

If 'we' did this to America, then those who don't want something to happen should vote and call their congressmen. Don't sit back and gripe about it, DO SOMETHING.

That's a nice slogan, but would you happen to have a more concrete plan of action? Remember, even if people do vote, it's not guaranteed that they get their wishes respected since this administration doesn't appear to be in the habit of listening to other opinions or viewpoints. Also, it's also not clear whether money that you've donated will go completely to the victims...

Besides, people can take action and gripe at the same time.

- Aric

[Vorchia]

"To tell the truth, I was so disgusted by the whole thing that I couldn't finish it."
Why do I get the feeling I don't want to know... See, here's what I mean, me and Azonthus, never, ever agree on politics and certainly never on the question of how this world came to be. Really, its insane. I can't remember a single political point in which we actually AGREED. Do you, Az? Its amazing we along so well if you look at our views on politics and creation. No wait, I think we actually agreed on one point that Kerry and Bush were both bad candicates in the elections. I think thats the only thing we ever agreed upon politically.

"You know who cut the funding to FEMA and the military? CLINTON."
That is besides the point, for me anyway it is about cutting those funds AT AL. I don't care who did it. what shocks me is that it was possible and left to escalate.

"That happened during the Clinton administration and Bush has been trying to increase funding for it."
Yeah right, the only thing BUSH has been raiding funds for is the war in Iraq. Sadly however, everything 'Bush' says and does may have very little to do with what Bush thinks and wants as he's nothing but the marionette of his advisors. He's failing all the time and being controlled by others. Unfortunately he appears not to be very intelligent, which is VERY bad considering that he's the president of the United States......

"Tax cuts for the rich? Try tax cuts for everybody! I believe taxes should be the same percentage for everybody and this stupid bracket system is insane."
Whats this 'bracket system' of yours anyway? Here the rich pay more, yes, seems fair to me. If you have more money, you should pay more so the governemnt can ensure those poorer then you can get medical treatment and education, which is their human right just as much as it is yours.
The rich also pay more so the poor and rich in lowlying areas alike can have their homes protected by Waterworks. Of course after the dikes have broken several DUtch companies get flooded by questions on how to maintain a dike and how to build waterworks... Oh yes its good for the Dutch economy to sell to the U.S.A some technology but we'd have just as gladly sold it a few years ago, hello, where were the water engineers before Katrina, eating cake in Texas?
You don't need tax cuts at a time like this when the economy has been doing bad for years and can't recover due to the expenses being higher then the income. (You know what I'm referring to)

"Just because people make more money does not mean they should have to give up a larger percentage of it than the poor people."
And you can look on in cold blood knowing that in your rich nation some people have to have TWO fastfood restaurant jobs and still can't get a minimum income they need to survive? You can live in your big fat American mansions (yes I have seen with my own eyes the average American lives in a mansion) knowing the less financially blessed of the world's richest nation are making only 5700 dollars a year while the richest can make money unlimited and sit on it? How is someone who makes THAT little (way below the poverty boundary of even the lowest estimates) supposed to pay the same amount of tax as someone who makes, one, two, three thousand dollars a year? Should those high incomes not give a little so hospitals don't have to refuse the poor and the genius black child of poor parents in the Bronx can go to Harvard?

"It may be easy to dehumanize the rich because they have more money than others and they're grouped under the title 'the rich' and not given faces."
It may be easy to dehumanize everyone and create a society which is so full of lust for dollars they forget all else, yes. Its too easy, the easy way is evil's way.

"Well, they're human too and try to make a buck ever bit as hard as everyone else."
You forget that not everyone gets equal chances in life, especially not in modern society where if you're poor or not white, you have a problem during your whole carreer. If you aren't a genius, can't get funds or support from your family you're just not going to get into college. College is so expensive in teh United states any parent couple who isn't filthy rich will need a second mortgage on their house to be able to pull it off! If you don't have parents who support your decision to study, you're screwed. You can't get a house, income AND study, it just doesn't work.

"Privitization is GOOD for businesses. You get more competition and better service because there's always somebody else willing to do your job if you can't do it well enough. From this competition you get quality."
Yes you get quality.... For those who can afford it. This system keeps the poor, elderly, black and other minorities from taking the full benefit of for instance modern medicine. Is this right? Are not all people equal?If I were poor, too poor to get medical treatment and I died while a few pills could have saved me, would my life suddenly not matter? Do the lives of old people who have worked hard all their lives not matter and should they be left to die when they don't have the money to pay your insanely expensive medicine? I don't think so. Its the basic question of right and wrong here. 'Why should I help you when you have nothing to offer me?' Well you should because its human to do so, because you must, because we're trying to be 'civivilised' as in opposed to the law of the jungle 'eat and be eaten'.

"With no competition in government run organizations, people get lazy and complacent."
Not at all, quality would be constantly checked by another governemnt organisation, like the FDA is always checking your food and medicine.

"I personally want to know what Mr. Moore was doing the day the levies broke."
Levies, jeans? I assume you mean dikes?

"Sitting there thinking of a wonderful letter to write? Or was he trying to get aid together? He may speak loudly, but what has he done to help?"
He was never in charge, he had not the power to act. Had he had it, could he have done ANY worse then the authorities did? I don't think so. At least this man cares.

"If 'we' did this to America, then those who don't want something to happen should vote and call their congressmen. Don't sit back and gripe about it, DO SOMETHING."
Its not what you did, its what your government FAILED to to. It failed utterly to protect those it had been elected to protect and care for. Any other that would neglect her children the wya the authorities there neglected the people in need would face serious charges. Yes I somehow don't think many politician's heads will roll.

"Ok, rant over before I shove my foot further down my mouth."
Whats this 'foot in mouth' expression anyway? I've heard it before and there are even 'foot in mouth' emoticons but the expression makes zero sense to me. Does it mean you think you should keep your mouth shut Doesit mean you think you said something wrong, blundered?

"You wanted discussion, you got another view;) "
I'm sticking with my own, don't shoot!

"Yeah, it started with Clinton, but as I pointed out in another thread, the money Bush "tried" top raise went, by and large, to the anti-terrorism parts of Homeland Security. Bush hurt FEMA even more with his security measures, not to mention the people he appointed into key government positions."

I agree.

"It's also Bush and the Republicans shooting their mouths off and telling the public that their ways can keep people safe. Something that hasn't happened in Lousisiana and Mississippi."

Agree again

"Of course, I think Bush was a convenient target here. I think the Republican-dominated Congress is just as guilty, if not moreso, as Bush."
Like I said, he probably can't help it, the marionette... >_<


"Now, when I say Republican-dominated, I include the Democrats who were cowed by the militant and jingoistc talk of "patriotism" and "freedom fries." "

I'm part French, imagine how I felt when the whole "freedom fries" thing burst loose.

[Stouthorn]

The rich DO NOT work as hard as everyone else. Poor people are some of the hardest working people in the world. You cannot convince me that Brad Pitt works harder than a mother of two making 17,000 a year on two jobs.

As for the rich paying a larger percent tax on their income than the poor, is it not said that if a rich man and a poor man give the same amount, it is the poor man who has given more? If we're working towards a societal ideal, then the rich do indeed have a responsibility to the nation to pay a larger percentage.

[Vorchia]

Correct, Stouthorn. Thats what I was saying. Anyone middle class can make a an income they can live well off, doing a normal 36 to 40 hour workweek. Those with the really low incomes in the united states need to work 60, 80 hours and STILL haven't got the means to afford life's basics, housing, food, medical care...
Sure there's poverty here too but everyone has a minimum income, even the jobless handicapped and sick. Everyone can get the same medical treatments, eductation etc, rich OR poor. Its no more then fair. The rich need not be pampered, neitehr do the poor but we all have to take care of each other a bit. The government has to protect the people, to make sure you do NOT get the natural jungle law tendencies of not doing or caring for anything that doesn't give direct profit. Because thats what happens when the market principle is let loose on things like health care systems...
I've heard your medicine prices are the highest in the world. Where's the sense in making medicine so expensive? Even if you let go of teh moral issue, economically you could vote against making medicine expensive as when a sick person can't get treatment he or she will work less efficiently and make less money.

[RedFeather]

stouthorn said:

The rich DO NOT work as hard as everyone else. Poor people are some of the hardest working people in the world. You cannot convince me that Brad Pitt works harder than a mother of two making 17,000 a year on two jobs.

It seems to me that the people making millions have all the nice, cushy jobs that don't require much other than meeting with people, talking on the phone or typing (which usually the person's underpaid secretary does anyway), aren't working nearly as hard as the person who has the crappy job at the gas station (or wherever) because that was all that was available at the time, and somehow has to make enough money to live on their own (which truthfully, is not possible - they would have to have multiple jobs). At jobs like that, you don't just sit there and look pretty. Any job of that calibur, be it gas station, fast food restaurant, or whatever, you are always expected to work your ass off. Always. Those who don't are deemed lazy and quickly lose their jobs.

Does the rich person do things like maintenance (because the fast food corp is too penny-pinching to get maintenance workers)? Do they have to deal with rich snobs treating them like complete crap on a daily basis? Do they have to deal with being screamed at for some lunatic customer for making a mistake? Do they have to get screwed over by their bosses because they weren't properly informed of a class they had to take to get a promotion, and then all previous promotions are taken away from them for not knowing, and not going to the class? Do they live with sexual harassment and not do anything because there is nothing that can be done about it? Do they have to deal with thievery?

No, of course not. I can tell you that I have seen all of these things happening at my job. The sexual harassment was a store manager we had long ago. (Although fortunately, that's not a problem now.) And as to thievery. Someone's stealing food out of our *locked* walk-in freezer. No one's been spotted during either shift. Me and one of my managers (we're closers) caught our current store manager driving in at three in the morning. When she saw us, she split, though. And there was no reason she would have been there at 3 am.

But, back to the point. When people make the assumption that rich people work harder, it just makes me sick. They get to sit down during the whole work day. We don't. And we don't get much else than a cigarette break. Why do you think so many people with crappy jobs like these are smokers? Because it gives someone an excuse to relax for ten minutes - something they would not get to do if they were nonsmokers.

[Azonthus]

minstelae said:

Why do you think so many people with crappy jobs like these are smokers? Because it gives someone an excuse to relax for ten minutes - something they would not get to do if they were nonsmokers.

*grins* That's why I take smoke free smoke breaks. I picked one other casher who took way too many smoke breaks and timed them. When she came back, I'd vanish for a bit and be gone as long as she was, no more or less. Yah, I got yelled at at first, but the managers eventually saw my point and allowed me to continue. She doesn't work there anymore, but not because she got fired. She ended up marrying one of the guys that worked at Sears.

[aric]

minstelae said:

It seems to me that the people making millions have all the nice, cushy jobs that don't require much other than meeting with people, talking on the phone or typing

In many cases, it's not even that. In the American system, in order to become rich, it helps to be rich in the first place. Just invest that nice inheritance into the stock market and watch the dollars be fruitful and multiply. So much for earning money by the sweat of your brow...

Oh, you do have entrepreneurs who strike it rich (take a look at the geek-to-geeky-billionaire Bill Gates), but most people aren't going to be able to make that kind of money in their lifetime. Most people have to work.

minstelae said:

(which usually the person's underpaid secretary does anyway), aren't working nearly as hard as the person who has the crappy job at the gas station (or wherever) because that was all that was available at the time, and somehow has to make enough money to live on their own (which truthfully, is not possible - they would have to have multiple jobs). At jobs like that, you don't just sit there and look pretty. Any job of that calibur, be it gas station, fast food restaurant, or whatever, you are always expected to work your ass off. Always. Those who don't are deemed lazy and quickly lose their jobs.

Isn't it funny that work culture says you have to be a team player and do it for the firm or company, and yet when it comes right down to it, you'll be fired in the latest round of down-sizing. It seems all the loyalty is one way.

minstelae said:

Does the rich person do things like maintenance (because the fast food corp is too penny-pinching to get maintenance workers)? Do they have to deal with rich snobs treating them like complete crap on a daily basis? Do they have to deal with being screamed at for some lunatic customer for making a mistake? Do they have to get screwed over by their bosses because they weren't properly informed of a class they had to take to get a promotion, and then all previous promotions are taken away from them for not knowing, and not going to the class? Do they live with sexual harassment and not do anything because there is nothing that can be done about it? Do they have to deal with thievery?

Well, they do have to defend themselves against the last one. After all, they have most of the expensive stuff.

minstelae said:

No, of course not. I can tell you that I have seen all of these things happening at my job. The sexual harassment was a store manager we had long ago. (Although fortunately, that's not a problem now.) And as to thievery. Someone's stealing food out of our *locked* walk-in freezer. No one's been spotted during either shift. Me and one of my managers (we're closers) caught our current store manager driving in at three in the morning. When she saw us, she split, though. And there was no reason she would have been there at 3 am.

But, back to the point. When people make the assumption that rich people work harder, it just makes me sick. They get to sit down during the whole work day. We don't. And we don't get much else than a cigarette break. Why do you think so many people with crappy jobs like these are smokers? Because it gives someone an excuse to relax for ten minutes - something they would not get to do if they were nonsmokers.

Well, I don't think Azonthus was saying that the rich necessarily work harder. She seems to be under the impression that the rich did something to deserve the entirety of the colossal wealth they currently have.

I'm not talking about lawyers who make more than 100k a year. That's nothing compared to loads of cash people who own large amounts of stock. At least the lawyer (no matter how unscrupulously) is using talent and effort of some sort. But people who sit back and take the wealth generated by other people is absolutely disgusting. That wealth wouldn't be there if it weren't for laborers and consumers. And yet somehow, the people who contribute the least get most of the money...

I can understand people getting something back for their initial investment, but perpetually raking in the cash generated by the productivity of others? That's nothing but parasitic, IMO.

And about the provitization thing Azonthus brought up earlier, I agree that competition is good. But as I pointed out before, the companies and corporations themselves don't like it because it cuts into their profits.

Also, there are some things that people shouldn't be making money off of. Pharmaceutical companies are raking in the dough at the expense of people who often despreately need that medicine to survive. According to the NIH, Federal and state governments provide 80% of the funding for drug research. And yet to hear these drug companies, you'd think they made the investment.

I personally support universal healthcare as well, but that's another story... I don't see why any part of the money people pay for health care should go to investors in the form of profits. That's just wrong.

- Aric

[Stouthorn]

Uh-oh, Aric, that sounds communist. Why don't you go to Cuba where you belong, you pinko? I mean, seriously, are you really suggesting that it's the government's responsibility to take care of ailing citizens and make sure they get what they need? You pinko *chocolate*.

[aric]

CRUSH CAPITALISM!!!!



;D

I hear people complaining about the threat of collectivism and touting individual rights in defense.

The funny thing is, I don't recall the I/me/mine mentality being used to characterize the so-called Greatest Generation. Those guys most idolized by conservatives. In all the interviews I've seen, they talk more about the group and teamwork than they do about themselves. I guess it took the Great Depression (perhaps the biggest failing of capitalism of the 20th Century) and how may terms of Roosevelt's socialism to get the point across.

Anyhoo... I guess most of that stuff about the group disappeared when the Cold War started. In order to fight the Reds, we had to distinguish ourselves from them by becoming the ideological opposites.

- Aric